The best way to get revenge on a Narcissist

The Best Ways of Getting Revenge on a Narcissist

Dear Narcissist Problems,

I have been with a narcissist for 3 years and he abruptly ended it. I don't know where to start but he is the one who fell in love with me and proposed to me. He was what I thought was an understanding person and respected me. But as time was passing by his colors were shown, angry!!!! Selfish!!! But yet I continued to love him. Then he started accusing me for so many things which I thought “Why am I getting accused??” He would call me a liar when I would start to explain why I didn’t do what he was accusing me of doing.

My Narcissistic Ex Keeps calling me Crazy

By the 2nd year he started calling me insane. He used to tell me that repeated mistakes are insanity but my repeated mistake was just “nagging” him for his love. I think that is a common characteristic of women and I used to tell him that I am not insane. I would again explain and defend myself. As time was going along he started calling me an idiot, that I have “no brains” that I “have an understanding problem”, “insane” and I was really pissed.

He has Characteristics of a narcissist

He started using his recovery terms on me when he has to apply them to his life and not mine. Then he started using these words every day and he stopped communicating with me. At first I was in bad shape thinking it was all my fault. But I came to this page and I was so relieved that it's not my fault and these are the characteristics of a narcissist.

He really made me feel like I am the worst person on earth and he the best. Nothing was his problem and he left me because of my “INSANE” personality. But now I know I am not insane and it's him!!!! All I want to say is I am still trying to recover from his verbal abuse as he was manipulating me with his satisfactory terms of life. God knows who the hell can deal with a narcissistic personality disorder!! I’m still trying to recover but the anger I have for him is too much. I still cry while thinking of how he made fun of my love for him. Calling me stupid and insane as if I were desperate. But the anger is what comes around, comes around, and comes around… he will definitely pay for what he has done to me. I wanted to ask if narcissists will ever think they have done anything wrong or  do narcissists ever feel guilty? Hurting someone so much and they can live a happy life?

Sincerely,

I want Revenge

Dear “Revenge”,

            I’m really glad that you found your way here too because the first thing I would like to say is to let go of wanting any pay back or revenge. The best way to get revenge on this jerk is to become hell bent on understanding narcissism and narcissistic abuse so that you don't end up in another relationship like this one and healing yourself. The number one best way to get revenge on a narcissist is by living a happy life filled with people who love you! Holding onto the anger of what you have been through with a narcissist will end up eating you alive. Moreover, it will keep you trapped in a vicious cycle of enmeshment with this person. He isn’t worth it. Think of the years you spent already trying to make things work with him. You don’t want to spend any more years trying to make him realize how much he has hurt you because he never will. If he does realize then he just does not care.

Do Narcissists Ever feel like they have done anything wrong?

You are asking some very great questions. Does he feel he has done anything wrong? This could go two ways with a narcissist really because they have very distorted thinking. In the first instance he may have justified his actions and bad behavior to himself making what he has done “ok” in his mind. The second instance is that yes he knows exactly what he is doing and he did it on purpose. Either way, he hurt you and would have only continued to hurt you and when he crawls back to you DO NOT TAKE HIM BACK!!!! He will never change so keep in mind when you are feeling nostalgic that narcissists only change their outfits and their victims.

Why do narcissists do what they do?

Why narcissists do what they do will remain a mystery for anyone who has empathy. We can examine their behavior, we can be involved with disordered individuals, and we can even have family that do cruel things. The biggest question that many survivors of narcissistic abusers have is if they feel bad or guilty about what they have done to us. From personal experience, I don’t think they will ever feel bad as far as we go. They might display remorse occasionally but when they do it is typically to further manipulate us. Once they have their mind set on abusing or exploiting someone it seems the only thing they learn to do is change their tactics when they get caught.

Narcissists are unlikely to feel remorse or guilt because they have no empathy

As for remorse or guilt it is highly unlikely. I shared a video the other day from Simon Baron-Cohen of whom I just became familiar with his work. Cohen has a very interesting perspective on the human personality as he utilizes research from multiple disciplines while searching for the answers for why people behave cruelly or why people do evil things. He investigates research from developmental psychology, neuroscience, genetics, and psychiatry to explain why some people lack empathy. He goes further to distinguish known disorders where empathy or reaction are limited specifically those diagnosed with autism and psychopaths.

Simon Baron-Cohen FBA is Professor of developmental psychopathology at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom. He is the Director of the University's Autism Research Centre, and a Fellow of Trinity College. Seems like a pretty nifty title right? Well FBA is short for Functional Behavior Assessment and is a process that identifies specific target behavior, the purpose of the behavior, and what factors maintain the behavior. What I find really interesting about his work is the connections he makes with research regarding empathy.

Are Narcissists Evil?

He recently wrote a book that covers how empathy works and why some people turn into psychopaths and also the different types of empathy or lack of.  I would suggest checking out his book The Science of Evil : On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty because I think it would help you understand why your narcissist has done what he has done and his ultimate feelings about it which could help you find some closure.

Unsatisfied with the explanation of atrocities being “because those who commit them are evil” Cohen has been on a mission since childhood to find an exact answer as to how people can be so cruel and why. Which is great for anyone who has suffered at the hands of a narcissist, sociopath, or psychopath. We need answers on the cellular level of our beings as to why and how our abuser could have done the things they did to us when all we wanted was to love and to be loved by them. In this book he says that the term evil is an easy way out of explaining anything on the subject so he refers to this behavior as “empathy erosion”.

Further, “empathy erosion can arise because of corrosive emotions, such as bitter resentment, or desire for revenge, or blind hatred, or a desire to protect, or the result of permanent psychological characteristics.” He completely dissects the debate of nature VS. Nurture and comes to the conclusion that psychopaths are cruel because of both nature and nurture. When people suffer from empathy erosion this is when people get turned into objects. They are no longer considered to be “people” with feelings or emotions. Those who suffer from a lack of empathy have no more concern for their victims than they would a pair of shoes.

If you hang out around survivors of cluster B disordered individuals long enough you will come to find that these are some pretty amazing people. Survivors are beautiful on the inside but they didn’t become that way due to the abuse of a narcissist or a psychopath. They were always that way. So when you say why did he do this to me, why did he make me feel stupid, why did he need to show me that he was better than me it is for one reason alone: He is intimidated by how intelligent and amazing you are and he needed to destroy something beautiful?

Narcissist steal objects and qualities from their victims

Another thing they do is try to “steal” the qualities of their victims so they mentally absorb all they find valuable in you and then they try to make it seem as if those qualities never existed in you in the first place. They are after something that you have whether it is physical like money or property or spiritually/ mentally like the essence of who you are. When they become hell bent on stealing from someone either physically, mentally, or spiritually they only focus on what they are wanting. They no longer see you as a person.

 In his book Cohen explains the why and how people can do cruel things with one example:

Erosion of empathy is a state of mind that can be found in any culture. In 2006 I was in Kenya with my family on holiday. We landed in Nairobi, a massive international city swirling with people. Sadly, Nairobi is home to one of the largest slums in Africa. People sleeping on the streets, mothers dying of AIDS, malnourished children begging or doing anything they can to survive. I met Esther, a young Kenyan woman, one of the fortunate ones who had a job. She warned me to be careful of the rising crime in Nairobi.

“I was in the supermarket,” she said. “Suddenly, a woman near me who was paying for her groceries let out a scream. A man behind her had cut off her finger. In the commotion, the man slid the wedding ring off the severed finger and ran off into the crowds.”

This is a shocking example of what one person can do to another. Formulating the plan to go out into the crowded supermarket to steal is easy enough to comprehend, especially if a person is starving. Formulating the plan to take a knife along is a bit harder to identify with, since it indicates clear premeditation to cut something.

But for me the key is to imagine the mind of the person in the seconds just before the act of cutting. At that very moment presumably all that is visible to the thief is the target (the ring), a small object that could feed him for weeks. All that is lying between him and his next meal is the woman’s finger that has to be severed. The fact that the finger is attached to a hand is mere inconvenience, and cold logic points to the solution: Detach it. The fact that the hand is attached to a person, with her own life and her own feelings, is at that moment irrelevant. Out of mind. It is an example of turning another person into, no more than, an object. My argument is that when you treat someone as an object, your empathy has been turned off.”

Narcissists see their victims as objects and not people

So when you ask will a narcissist ever feel guilty for hurting you…. I think the only answer is No he knew what he was doing but he just did not care because he has zero empathy for your pain. You had something that he desperately wanted. There really is no difference between this supermarket thief and your ex-boyfriend in regards to how they feel about their victims.

It is going to take a really long time to recover from this relationship. Being angry is a natural response to injustice and a violation of who we are as human beings. Wanting to be loved and wanted is a normal human behavior. Gaining someone’s love just too consistently reject, criticize and tear them down is not a normal human behavior and you should avoid anyone who does this to you because they will slowly kill you over time.

You are going to need some support while you heal from this. You should also get into therapy as soon as possible with a professional who specifically treats patients who have suffered from trauma. As for a support system I invite you to make an anonymous profile and join our support group. Also read and research all that you can about this personality disorder because it will help you heal to understand what you have been through. These people put us through so much that it is hard to identify or explain it to ourselves much less to anyone else. Good luck to you on your healing journey, you got this!

Regards,

Get a copy of The Science of Evil

Baron-Cohen, S. (2011). The Science of Evil : on empathy and the origins of cruelty. New York: Basic Books, c2011.

Baron-Cohen, S. (2011). The science of evil. [Electronic resource]: on empathy and the origins of cruelty. New York: Basic Books, c2011.

Dear Narcissist Problems, "Choke"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

Please leave my name anonymous.  I filed for divorce in October from my Narc husband. After 18 months of verbal, physical, psychological, emotional abuse and manipulation (which my own 8yo son witnessed and experienced personally) I left the home we shared.  In June after a particular argument in which I threw a bottle that hit the wall behind him and he pinned me by the throat to the wall while I was holding our 9 month old child. I left that day. He has been constant Jekyll and Hyde and I’m just starting to come to terms with the senselessness and hurt and beginning to function alongside that pain. I don’t want to divorce. Though I know it’s the logical choice and healthiest for myself and the kids.

On Sunday he was throwing a fit and said 'Hate does not even describe what I have for you maybe its best I don't come back so I don't f***ing kill you though I believe they are juvenile words thrown to incite a reaction, I also am unsure sometimes during his rage episodes. Since he said the kill comments he has been very cordial. I was advised to file a restraining order and now that I have I feel immense anxiety and regret. When he does get served, it’s going to really make him mad and it’s honestly a pointless thing to have done on my part. We live 4hrs and two states apart and he never comes in so asking for a restraining order for someone that’s not around feels petty and will cause both of us unnecessary court dates and add more problems to this pending divorce.

He recently began to send me $ again -since I haven’t worked since June '15. And the car he lets me use is his- he just renewed tags that have been expired for the past 3mos. He is "giving" me the car to use and "allowance". I can’t work a true job because I homeschool my 8yo (instead of public schools in our neighborhood) and my other is 1 year old.  I feel like he’s in control of everything but I have to feed my kids. I don’t know how to handle things anymore. He turned off my phone in sept because I messaged his gf he’s had since before I even moved out. The cheating, lies, abuse, gas lighting, and manipulation... the whole "relationship" from the beginning for him was this extravagant game.

I just don’t know how to handle this in a way that will help my mental health and the future of mine and my children’s lives. I want my children to have their father but I’m terrified what kind of ways he will shape them and just everything. He has left me terrified of people, of trusting, and hope in anyone. He has broken my soul and I’m not able to even trust myself, so how can I possibly even know how to choose what to do?

Sincerely,

“Choked”

Dear “Choked”,

            I’m really sorry to hear about your whole nightmare.  Other than forgiving ourselves, trusting ourselves again after being in an abusive relationship is one of the hardest things a human will ever have to do.  You will probably feel guilty for a long time for things your children witnessed too.  However, you should be very proud of yourself that you left as quickly as you did because by doing so you have prevented any further traumas that would have occurred had you stayed.  Everything that you have described here in regards to your reactions to the situation is spot on normal. 

            I don’t think anyone ever wants a divorce and especially not during such a vulnerable time raising children.  The scariest thing in leaving is the instability that being on your own with two children brings.  Many people stay in abusive relationships for this reason alone.  I’m not going to lie to you and say that it’s going to be easy because it probably won’t be.  I would recommend finding any sources of support that you can either in your own family or circle of friends.

 The reality of the situation is that you are going to need a source of income.  I would start by seeking out any assistance you can by contacting your local domestic violence shelters.  These centers will work with you to get you back on your feet and offer a source of emotional support in the form of therapy.  The will also point you in the right direction to seek any financial assistance and health insurance.  Eventually you will be able to make a schedule for work and your family obligations. The important thing for you to do is to take one day at a time and know that you will make it through this you will thank yourself for leaving.

            As far as his current behavior and your thoughts on the restraining order go it would be best to proceed with the order.  I know your feeling conflicted about the whole situation but the reality is that he is an abuser and he will never stop abusing YOU.  He is giving you an “allowance” to maintain control over your finances so he can later manipulate you.  He is letting you use the car so that you will feel guilty later for sticking to the separation when he has “done nothing but try to take care of you”.  He will not change and you did the right thing. 

When he realizes that giving you an “allowance” and a car is not allowing him to slither back into your life he will use those things to further hurt you.  I would make sure that if the car is in his name and he is “allowing” you to use it that you get this in writing should he decide to punish you by reporting it as stolen.  This will come up in court when you get your restraining order in regards to the mutual ownership of any property.  Look for ways to make money so you do not become reliant upon his generous “allowance”.  Set up your life so that when he decides to stop the “allowance” then you will not be left without food, milk, electricity, or a home. 

It’s going to be a struggle and you and the children will be hurting for a while but keep in mind kids are incredibly resilient.  They will get past this and heal.  You need to decide that their healing and yours is more important than financial stability or further exposure to abuse.  Keep in mind that when you were being choked that was just a warning and this person is capable of killing you or one of your children just to hurt you.  Join support groups, seek out all the assistance you need, and make sure you get that restraining order because you’re going to need it.  Good Luck on your healing journey!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

Dear Narcissist Problems "Wendy"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

Is it possible to ask for some advice and remain anonymous?

Does anyone have any information about Peter Pan syndrome and manic depression? I have researched as much as I can. But I'm really not sure if PPS is a narcissist? Thank you

Sincerely,

“Wendy”

Dear “Wendy”,

     This is a great question!  When I first opened this question and the details were lacking my first thought was “What in the world is Wendy even asking and why?!?”  Then I thought about it for a minute and it makes a lot of sense to be asking this question.  My own narcissist was a woman but I gave it some thought and even she may have suffered a bit from a Peter Pan type Syndrome.  Let me be clear, my narcissist was my mother.  Aside from her grand ability to manipulate, triangulate, and con people she always behaved as a small child.  I think she may have worked a total of two weeks in her life and she expected everyone she came into contact with to care for her needs.  I mean the woman had me cleaning her house by the time I was 5 and I even learned how to fold laundry around 4.  The older I got the more I noticed that she was utterly unable to care for herself.  Other than making sure she was wearing makeup and her hair was curled the burden of her needs was placed on her alcoholic 2^nd husband and her children, well me, so one of her children.  She would even speak like a little girl and laugh like a little girl usually when she was trying to be “cute” aka to manipulate or con someone.  If you think about it all people are narcissists to a degree when we are young but most of us grow out of our self-centeredness when we are children. 

 Your question sent me on a quest for answers.  Even though I’m pretty sure these two can be related I’d like to see what experts have to say.  I found an article written by Victoria L. Godwin from Prairie View A&M University in the journal of Interactions: Studies in Communication & Culture titled “Never grow old, never die’: Vampires, narcissism, and simulacra” that might be able to answer some questions for us.  While this article mainly focuses on vampires and narcissistic fantasies is stated that “whereas vampirism arrests physical ageing, the Peter Pan syndrome arrests emotional maturation.  Children never grow up, and their continued dependence never reminds parents of ageing, death, and replacement by new generations.”(Godwin 2011).  So while this article is not specifically discussing Peter Pan syndrome being linked with Narcissistic Personality Disorder there does seem to be a connection.  Perhaps this connection is involved with the child’s stunted growth by their own narcissistic personality disordered parents.  Moreover, perhaps this display of childlikeness is actually a lure used by a predator in sheep’s clothing.  Another statement made in this article was that “the fear of death takes on new intensity in a society that has deprived itself of religion and shows little interest in posterity” (Godwin 2011).  Even though they are referring to vampires in this article it does make sense when speaking of an adult narcissist who is displaying characteristics of having Peter Pan syndrome too.  The relationship between Peter Pan and Wendy is also similar to what we see when women are dating or married to a Narcissist.  The person in a relationship with the narcissist ends up responsible for the emotional and many times financial needs of their partner.  Godwin noted that when

“Dan Kiley writes about the Peter Pan syndrome (1983) wherein men refuse to grow up, and the Wendy dilemma of women who mother and otherwise take care of men they are convinced are unable to take care of themselves (1984). Whereas vampirism arrests physical ageing and preserves physical youth, the Peter Pan syndrome arrests emotional maturation and preserves a narcissistic adolescent condition of irresponsibility, rebellion and self-centeredness.”(2011).    

And this is what happens in a relationship with any narcissist whether we are taking care of them emotionally, financially, or both.  I hope this answered some questions for you as I’m not really sure what you have read on this subject so far but from my opinion yes I do believe that narcissism can be related to the Peter Pan syndrome.  Good luck to you and if you have any further questions please feel free to write in!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

Godwin, V. L. (2011). 'Never grow old, never die': Vampires, narcissism and simulacra. Interactions: Studies In Communication & Culture, 3(1), 91-106. doi:10.1386/iscc.3.1.91_1

Dear Narcissist Problems, "Dating Corporal Shithead"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

Curious if one who is diagnosed in past as passive/aggressive disorder now classified as personally disorder also may exhibit narcissistic tendencies? I have been dating a man/former Marine not involved in front line tactics. But in administrative position. Nothing against them as my Dad was also a Marine Vet, but they receive/conditioned with a very superior almost arrogant mentality. A lot of times when we have a disagreement he twists the situation /my words around blatantly like a pretzel and when I call him on it to defend what I said/meant he dismisses my explanation/feelings. Such as, "You always want to start an argument and bitch!" Most of the time it happens when we have been drinking. He doesn't drink/ smoke every day, but when he does it is binge drinking. When he is sober he needles me and is quick to point out what he considers are flaws. We don't live together, but have different routines. He goes to bed and rises early. If I stay over and happen to sleep until 8/8:30 he sometimes acts like I slept the day away. I tell him just because we have different routines doesn't mean I am not also productive. I have told him before l don't need a dad. And when I feel like he is "lining” me out that the code is my reply is, "Alright Gunny!" A figure of speech about a Marine drill sergeant. I also have said just because we do things differently doesn't mean one way is right and the other is wrong. We both have been divorced for quite a while and thus being independent for so long and each having our own routines/ways doesn't make it easy. But I feel that's when compromise comes into play. Sometimes he agrees and other times he just walks away and does other things. We go for a month or two and have a disagreement or I say something he doesn't like I get the silent treatment for a few days to a week.

Sincerely,

“Dating Corporal Shithead”

Dear “Dating Corporal Shithead”,

I wonder if the better question would actually be can someone with narcissistic personality disorder have been accidentally diagnosed as passive aggressive.  We are referring to people who use gas lighting as a form of manipulation of our realities.  So it isn’t too much of a stretch to notice a lot of narcissists are also passive aggressive.  I’m assuming because of the plausible deniability of passive aggression.  It’s easy for passive aggressive to be left open to assumption.  It’s also easy for a narcissist to say “You are misinterpreting what I did or said because I didn’t mean it that way”, even when they know full well they meant it that way!  The silent treatment is actually one of the number one tactics a narcissist will use to put you in your place.  To show their disapproval of your behavior they will literally just ignore you or the topic until you submit to whatever their requested behavior or ideas were. 

In the fall of 2013, there was an article written about the passive aggressive conflict cycle written by Signe Whitson where she states “Persons who are passively aggressive can provoke angry responses in another while not overtly appearing to be aggressive themselves.”(Whitson 2013).  This is very important to understand as Narcissists are notorious crazy makers.  Signe then went on to identify the five stages of passive aggressive conflict while emphasizing the only way to avoid a conflict is to understand the passive aggressive conflict cycle.  The five stages are as follows; Stage 1: The Self-Concept & Irrational Beliefs of the Passive Aggressive Person which explains that a passive aggressive person has been raised to avoid displaying anger because doing so is dangerous.  I’m not going to go into too much detail on Stage one because from my perspective it is irrelevant because most people would refuse to put in the work to change their behavior in the first place.  In other words, it’s pointless to explore why he would feel that expressing anger is dangerous. 

Stage two is The Stressful Event where the passive aggressive becomes the victim because they are asked to do something.  This can be seen when he stated that "You always want to start an argument and bitch!”  He feels as though you are picking on him for bringing up valid points of his bad behavior or expressing things in the relationship that displeases you. 

Stage 3, and here comes a very relevant fact; The Passive Aggressive Person’s Feelings “The passive aggressive person has learned over the years to defend against his angry feelings by denying them and projecting them onto others.”(Whitson 2013).  I found stage three pretty interesting since Narcissists are also Notorious for projecting all their negative feelings and behaviors onto their victims.

 Now here is where you might want to take notes, Stage 4: The passive aggressive Person’s Behavior.  Here it is stated that “The behavior of most passive aggressive individuals is both purposeful and intentional.  What is more, the passive aggressive person derives genuine pleasure out of frustrating others to get someone else to act out his or her anger.  So essentially Corporal shithead is pushing your buttons on purpose with the sole purpose of watching you explode in anger or rage.  They do this by, “Denying feelings of anger, withdrawing and sulking (silent treatment), procrastinating, carrying out tasks inefficiently or unacceptably, and exacting hidden revenge.”(Whitson 2013). 

Finally, we come to Stage 5: The Reactions of Others.  In this stage the passive aggressive waits for the expected reaction and then claims victimhood of your anger or frustration.  It is important to see this behavior and be able to identify it so the next time your buttons start to be pushed when he is constantly keeping track of your daily schedule you are aware that he is seeking your negative reaction. 

Honestly, after reading this article it seems that passive aggressive behavior might actually go hand in hand with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  Obviously I’m not a doctor but it’s all right there in black and white.  I hope this helps to answer some questions for you.  As to your situation I have my own question to ask; “How long do you want to be treated this way and deal with the drama?”  Good luck on your healing journey!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

Reference

Whitson, S. (2013). The Passive Aggressive Conflict Cycle. Reclaiming Children & Youth, 22(3), 24-27.

Dear Narcissist Problems: "Enlightened"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

I work with the local domestic violence advocacy group to help my children and I deal with their father and my ex. Our counsellors have expressed that in the addition to his abuse he displays behavior characterized by narcissistic personally disorder. Of course, they cannot make an official diagnosis without him as their client, but from books I have read to help cope there may as well be a picture of him. I stumbled across this sight yesterday and I can't believe how your posts and statements hit the nail on the head. It's a struggle to deal with this and seeing your posts brings some relief knowing I'm not losing my mind and there are people out there like this. I just wish law enforcement and child protection groups could be more educated in recognizing this type of behavior. The narcissistic is adept at putting on the act and getting away with crime. Thank you.

Regards,

“Enlightened”

Dear “Enlightened”,

            I would like to say Kudos to your local Domestic Violence Advocacy group because they even considered that you could be being abused by a narcissist!  Give those women and men a medal!  As you have probably realized by now you are one of the very few people who found their way without doing that infamous google search looking for answers.  This is exactly why I do what I do here because not many people do know or have heard of Narcissistic Abuse.  This traps victims in situations of abuse for YEARS because they start to believe the problem really is them after years of the narcissist eroding their self-esteem and perception of reality.  Sana Loue, J.D., Ph.D., M.P.H., wrote an article on the legal implications of emotional and psychological abuse which stated; “Emotional abuse, a label often used synonymously with the terms emotional maltreatment, psychological battering, psychological abuse, and soul murder, has been called “the most elusive and damaging of all types of maltreatment for a child” and represents “the core issue and most destructive factor across all types of child abuse and neglect” (Loue 2005).  Here we have one of the most destructive forms of abuse and there is little recognition of it in the healthcare field or legal systems.  The article further illustrates that “The very elusiveness, however, of the identification of emotional and psychological abuse casts doubt on the accuracy of available data relating to its occurrence, and it is likely that the incidence and prevalence of such abuse are subject to significant underreporting”(Loue 2005).  So not only is this type of abuse very difficult to identify victims are also not reporting it.  The ones who have reported it are left feeling disbelieved, discouraged, and shattered.  This is how and why many of us in this community have reached out into the public to share our stories and offer support to others living through hell.

 I know you didn’t really ask a question but you said something that I would really like to highlight “seeing your posts brings some relief knowing I'm not losing my mind and there are people out there like this. I just wish law enforcement and child protection groups could be more educated in recognizing this type of behavior.” (Enlightened 2016).  Dealing with a narcissist we know they will destroy our lives and the way in which they do it leaves us looking insane, unstable, irrational, and the list goes on.  While we try to maintain any resemblance of being the normal rational human beings we are once a narcissist gets their hands on someone who has control over your life such as a lawyer, police officer, or judge it usually means game over for us.  Some of us have watched our therapists be manipulated against us through couples counseling and then that same therapist will be utilized for court.  Some narcissists will call child protective services on us and then play the role of caring adult in our children’s lives to manipulate the state against us resulting in the loss of our children. It was seen that “definitional issues further compound the difficulties associated with the identification, documentation, prosecution, and prevention of emotional and psychological abuse” (Loue 2005).  It’s no wonder that nothing is being done in the legal field to prosecute abusers and protect victims as we can’t expect laws to be written when there is no clear definition on what it means to have your soul murdered.

 What is my point here?  It is essential that when you find out what narcissistic abuse is and that you have been abused you need to spread awareness of this type of abuse.  More than that, as many of us do, go out of our ways to support each other when we see a victim getting abused further by people in positions of power or authority because they don’t fully understand or recognize what emotional or psychological abuse looks like.  You will see many survivors going to court to show support, campaigning for funds for court cases, starting petitions, or simply blogging to get the word out.  It’s imperative that we take on this responsibility, when ready, so that narcissists do not get away with their crimes.  You do not need a special degree or a certification to become an advocate for victims of Narcissistic Abuse.  All that you need is your voice, your story, and your passion.  The more who get involved with this effort the sooner we will see legislation and policies being passed that not only recognize this type of abuse but also the prosecution of the abusers.  The way to do this is to just get out there and get involved by finding and joining others with a similar cause which is typically experience specific.  Good luck to you on your healing journey!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

 Reference

Loue, S. (2005). Redefining the emotional and psychological abuse and maltreatment of children: legal implications. Journal Of Legal Medicine, 26(3), 311-337 27p.

Dear Narcissist Problems, "Parental Concerns"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

Hey I'm really struggling with my narc at the moment.  He walked away from our child for 2 years for a woman and when it suited him ( because they had broken up ) he wanted my son in his life again I struggled for months with this I know what he's capable of he has emotionally traumatized my wee boy. The only reason I let him is because I used to have a serious drinking problem but am 3 years sober now and I could see how I was guilty of a lot myself like: played games, I provoked him purposely, I would always go back to him not that that excused his behavior.  He was cold, nasty, and unhuman towards me and my children but I can see my part.  Since getting sober I have learned to be healthy and have boundaries and good people around me and I have my faith so I thought since I had changed maybe he could too.  This went against everything I knew about narcs but 2 years and my son was still crying every night for dad so I let him back but with very strict boundaries and the last several months he has been good. He still tries to play games and snarky comments and mind games and the flirting despite him having a new gf but I shut it down n don't play into it.  This weekend after having 2 sick kids all week he had my son stay and started playing games with refusing to go get him medicine or letting me bring any over...eventually he did but he wound me up for a hour thinking my son was going to go without while he was sick and he loved that he got a reaction. I had sensed it was driving him nuts not being able to get a reaction for so long when I used to be so predictable so I think he knew how exhausted I was and jumped on his chance. Nobody I talk to understands why this has upset me so much but it's because I can see he's still exactly the same cold narcissist he's always been. Using my child's wellbeing to get a reaction from me it brought up all the stuff he's done to us in past. I try to not judge him on the past but it's hard. Everyone I've spoken to keeps saying no matter what he's still his father he has a right to have overnight access but after that I don't want to send him I wouldn't stop it completely that would mess with my boy but I don't want him there overnight by himself.  It reminded me I don't trust him with our child despite a few months of ok behavior I know who he is.  I desperately need advice on what I should do? There's no custody agreement as he walked away for so long so balls in my court. I want my son to have a dad but I'm scared of the damage it's doing by me giving him chance after chance. I get what others are saying that he needs to learn to be a dad and be patient but do narcs actually love their kids? Am I doing serious damage letting this man in his life?

Sincerely,

“Parental Concerns”

Dear “Concerned”,

            I’m really glad you threw in that last part about there not being a custody agreement because that was my first question.  Nobody wants to be a parental alienator.  Further, you have no control over his decision to abandon your child’s life.  You have no control over this man’s manipulative behavior either.  I would immediately stop any unsupervised visits until there is a court order in place.  I would also urge against overnight visits at all.  This man has been absent from your child’s life for years.  While yes he needs to “learn how to parent” it is not your job to teach him or your child’s duty to be a guinea pig.  Your past mistakes are mute at this point.  You have taken the steps to make your life right and are working on yourself to become a better person and to have a positive role in your life.  Stop the visits and site the withholding of medication as a sole reason.  If you did something like this the government would have your ass in court for medical neglect in a heartbeat, especially if something bad happened to the child as a result of the medicine being withheld.  Here is the thing, we are not psychic…or doctors.  We are mothers who are put into place to look after the best interest of our children.  You could not know if the withholding of medicine would seriously harm your child.  At this point, every encounter this man has with your child is evidence for a judge that he has a relationship with said child.  It’s not that you are trying to prevent this man from being a father.  What you need to do is get a court order in place that will allow this transition to take place safely.  Your goal is to have your child build a healthy and stable relationship with his father.  However, manipulating you so early on is a huge red flag that you need to ignore all of the advice you are receiving and head straight into a court.  Good Luck to you and stand firm!  No more unsupervised visits until this man proves he is capable of having them.  It’s one thing to ask for supervised visits for a father who has always been there for his child.  It’s quite another to give unsupervised visits to a known abuser who abandon the child for years.  Stand strong and call the police if you need to.  I would have called the police the minute he started playing games with the child’s health.

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

Dear Narcissist Problems, "Confused"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

     I know it's possible to have PTSD from being in an abusive relationship. I have yet to run this by my shrink. But imagine this. The narc so quickly scooped me up from a marriage I choose to leave. Blinded me of course. The destruction, loss of just about everyone and everything. I never gave my now ex-husband a second thought. Not one. Our bond a hidden box because to even think of him shamed me in fear of what my narc bf would think. Now that the spell is broken, we have been living apart fir 5 months, had a restraining order last Sumner, this is our 25th or so break up. But he knows I'm done. On to the next. .. But is it possible... for me to still be IN love with my ex-husband or is this just me mourning the huge loss of my life due to the narc. I'm coming to the thought that had I not been so enraptured by such a con artist, I would have given my then husband the second chance he rightly fully deserved....

Sincerely,

“Confused”

Dear “Confused”,

      You have described here the perfect example of a rebound relationship.  Unfortunately, your rebound after divorce landed you in the arms of an emotional predator.  Break ups of any kind can be devastating and leave us feeling broken, unloved, and unlovable, damaged, and left with a general sense of there something being wrong with us.  I am going to assume that you were love bombed by this narcissist you jumped into your next relationship with.  While you were experiencing rejection from your divorce here comes Mr. Wonderful who is full of immortal love and admiration for you.  He probably showered you in attention while simultaneously telling you that your ex was horrible and stupid for wanting to leave someone as amazing as you are.  What you didn’t do is give yourself space or a chance to think about things clearly before continuing on in this relationship.  I’m sure you ignored many red flags that this relationship would most likely be doomed to fail.  Now after this horrible experience with Mr. Wonderful you are probably doubting the problems that you had with your ex-husband.  There is a saying out there about nostalgia helping us forget all the bad while focusing on the good that occurred in past relationships.  This is probably why you are feeling confused about your ex-husband.  I would give yourself adequate time to sort out your feelings.  It seems as if you are a giver and in this moment you are trying to find someone to fill a void.  Someone to give that love to.  I want you to stop right now because you need to be giving that love to yourself.  Divorce doesn’t just happen.  There were reasons why you split up.  I’m not saying it’s impossible for you to still love your ex-husband but perhaps you should take things slow if anything and rebuild a friendship before exploring feelings of being in-love.  I don’t know about your childhood but you just might be confusing feelings of intensity with feelings of love.  Take a lot of time to get to know yourself before even considering a relationship with anyone other than yourself.  I hope this helps! Good luck to you on your healing journey!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

Dear Narcissist Problems, "Too Close for comfort"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

     Okay so here I go cause I don’t have anywhere else to turn to about it...I am hoping that you post this answer to me in the group or here ...I know she is not around the computer.... I met my now fiancée 5 years ago she is real sweet to everybody she wants to be too she is a pub manager , liquor store manager and I am aware that her family , older brother, mom and dad and she are narcissists. She being the youngest. I have witnessed that her and her brother are a wee bit closer to each other ...leaving me in the living room while the brother has to talk to her in the bedroom behind closed door or in the kitchen he is whispering in her ear as she giggles all the while I am seated with the parents. The list goes on ...they even as a family went to Vegas and they shared a room. She and her brother. I was really upset and I confided in the ex sis in law and I figure she said something to him...I also included that I have a right to know so I can make up my mind about things and that they better figure things out b/c I am ready to leave her. All of a sudden he is madly in love with this woman, and is already got her thinking that he is gay. They broke up but got back together...whenever he was not dating he would be showing up at her work and telling their mom that he misses his sis...when her mom said that , I say he should find himself a girlfriend! I think that they are aware (parents) but because the mom worships her son they carry on as if nothing is wrong. Tonight is the mom’s b-day. He has never invited us out, only we met him at the narcs house so they could go talk. We had dinner out with his new fbuddy once and tonight will be number two. I am feeling ill over it and I just because he has a girlfriend doesn’t make it okay for me to have to pretend like nothing ever happened. I know he emails her, she denies it, he texts her, never once during my back surgery has he ever called me to see if I needed anything ever. I don’t even want to go tonight! Thanks for being here for me and I look forward to your comment.

Sincerely,

“Too Close for Comfort”

Dear “Too Close for Comfort”,

     If you are confused then there might be a narcissist involved somewhere. I guess my first question is: Are we talking about her biological brother or is he a “friend” of the family, or possibly adopted??? The whole situation is off! I mean, obviously I came from a dysfunctional family so I have no idea what a normal happy family should look or act like but sharing a room in Vegas?? Where you on the trip as well? I know, I know I have more questions than answer but I’d like to focus in on one of your first statements: “I am aware that her family, older brother, mom and dad and she are narcissists.”(2015). Let me just document that as being said, I’ll leave out your name but you get the point. You are aware that this entire family are most likely a nest of narcissists. For the love of God just run for the hills!!!! Being aware of some of your other past relationships I do believe you know in your heart what needs to be done. You need to protect yourself! I don’t know if this is normal or just plain incestuous but if it were me in your shoes I would be out of there! I have a brother and I have never missed the guy that much nor he me. Maybe at the age of 5 or 7 we might have spent time together like that but as we age we begin to become our own people with our own lives. I’m starting to wonder if there is some kind of trauma bond going on there. What is clear from what you have written is that the two of them might use their sexuality as a form of manipulation. You know my advice is only going to be to get out of this relationship! I didn’t mean to sit on this response for so long but here is the point, it’s been a few months and you still feel the same way. I really want to see you focus on yourself. I want to see you doing things that are going to make you happy. I want to hear that you are meeting people who are not drawing on your insecurities and exacerbating a negative situation. When we are in a normal and caring relationship and we tell our significant other “Hey, this really bothers me”. The normally try to understand why and don’t do things like share bedrooms and hide and whisper leaving you in the room with their strange parents. I mean I don’t know much about normal families but that seems a little abnormal. I’m gonna leave it at that and let the readers decide what the heck is going on here. As always comments and advice are always welcome. The sooner the better! Anyone else ever deal with something like this? Let’s hear it!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

Dear Narcissist Problems, "Oy Vey!"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

     Just wanted to thank you for creating this wonderful resource! For the past 10 months my biological family has ex-communicated me, my husband and our 3 special needs kids. Most of the posts you post relate to my story. Lately, my Mother has been sending round the message that she wants to reconnect "just the 2 of us" now that she has firmly secured the opinions of my family and extended family.     This week, after hearing that I had been in a near-fatal car accident, she decided to call me. I cannot begin to tell you how much your page has empowered me and clarified the Narcissistic behavior pattern. I had the ability to distance and "check through the checklist." Classic tactics et. all.
Still very hard to deal with the fact that this IS my family - but clarity goes a long way...
Thank you!

A week after the phone call, my mother wrote me, I responded, and then my father monkey danced at me and I debated if/how to respond. Considering full 'no contact' but a little anxious.

Below is the exchange:

Dear A****a,

     I’ve been thinking about our conversation a lot. I am so sorry for the pain that I have caused you. I’m sure we both never meant to hurt each other or anyone else. The question is what happens now. A*a and I are not in favor of the group mediation idea. But I am happy to work with you with the aid of a therapist of your choice. I think we can attack the main issues that are bothering you from my understanding of the phone conversation. I would also be happy to visit the kids at your in-laws, for example, so that you are comfortable with the arrangement. I truly love and care about you and will try to do the best that I can in the interest of shalom. You can call any time to arrange a visit or pick up money if and when you are ready to do so. I wish only health and happiness for you and your family. Much love always.

Dear I******a,

     I accept your apology for the past, though I find it somewhat frightening that someone with your life experience would not realize that ostracizing one's own flesh and blood through fallacies would be hurtful. Am I to understand that A*a is not interested in reconstructing a relationship with me? Or that, you are not interested in having A*a be part of the process? Since my husband and I have been punished as a unit for each other’s fictitious "wrongdoings", I believe that it is only right to repair the relationship as a unit, as well. I don't know that I would call it "group therapy" so much as clarifying the rules of our relationship, for the benefit of the future. This is not about the past, so much as about the future. A trained family mediator would be able to clarify to us healthy patterns of behavior so as not to create hurt in the future. Although I appreciate your good will, I do not believe it to be prudent to re-introduce the children at this point. I would like to know that there was security in the relationship first - they have suffered greatly from rejection and I would not want them to have to go through this again. As of now we have not experienced a parental relationship with you over the past 11 months, we do not feel that it would be appropriate to accept your thoughtful financial offer at this point. Thank you for your good wishes, wishing you all the best,

A***a Dear A***a, I*a has nothing to do with me in this. My position has been clear from the start – you created this machlokes (fight) for no reason. And you are incapable of hearing anyone else’s point of view. If you had a drop of humility you would say “gee what did I do to drive my parents and siblings away? MAYBE I made a mistake. MAYBE I did something wrong. Instead you blame everyone else. EVERYONE is lying, EVERYONE has done me wrong. NO ONE has ever done anything for me! You know that van you just wrecked? I paid for it out of my own pocket, just like I paid for your first van. But no one has done ANYTHING for you. You have left a paper trail. You wrote several people how you want nothing to do with your family. YOUR FAMILY!!!! You created this for no reason. It was none of your business. You have spoken to relatives in America badmouthing us and M******m. I CAN PROVE IT! I spoke to the people. You have been incredibly disloyal, a true kofei tov. Nothing that anyone has ever done for you, not the HUNDREEDS of hours that I*a spent on the phone with you, nothing is appreciated. No A***a, I WILL NOT play your game. So keep beating up on I*a the only one who has been your advocate in the family to try to get them to see you in a positive light. The family is OUTRAGED by your behavior. Only I*a tries to defend you. After all you have said and done you have the gall to accuse I*a of lying! Halevi (I wish) I*a made it up! I wish you had never said or did all the things you did in the past YEAR. If at some time in the future, perhaps with the help of a professional. You can look yourself honestly in the mirror and say “Maybe I did something wrong” then I will be willing to discuss it. But I will not descend into the insanity that you have created. When a sibling is in trouble, the family rallies around them. Everyone did that (and does that) except you. What kind of a mother uses their own children as pawns in their twisted game? Of all you have done that is the most horrific. I pray for you and C*****a and the children every day. May Hashem (God) be good to all of you.

Love, A******a (Yes I still love you in spite of all you have done)

machlokes = fight,

Hakoros Ha'tov = gratitude

Halevai = I wish

Hashem = G-d

Sincerely,

“Oy Vey!”

 

Dear “Oy Vey”,

     Thank you for following the page and I am glad to hear the posts have been helpful for you in your situation.  I felt extremely unsure of how to tackle this message because of the mixture of a religion I have no experience with.  I do not know what is culturally “acceptable” and then I realize these issues really do cross every cultural barrier so let’s start with the unwillingness to go to group therapy on your mother’s part as she would rather get you into therapy….alone…with her.  It seems a common tactic of manipulation for a narcissist to get their victim into therapy alone with them.  This allows for the further manipulation through the therapist.  I do believe most therapists will recognize this but there is always the chance that they won’t.  I think your suggestion to keep all involved so there wouldn’t be any “misunderstandings” was a great.  Also, the fact that you wanted to keep your husband involved was great.  If anything I would seek therapy on your own without the involvement of others.  As for the mediator I am unsure why this is necessary?  Are we talking of a legal mediator because there are children involved or a spiritual mediator to heal the rift in the family?  I will go under the assumption that it is to mediate the family rift.  Again, mediation should involve all parties and should not be done in secret with only your mother and who she picks and choses to be present.  Anyone affected by the situation should be present so there aren’t any future misunderstandings.  As for the children, it is a good idea to keep them out of the circus.  To my understanding your mother is trying to control you from across an ocean so I can only imagine what goes on when she is up close and personal.  While we are on the topic of “No Contact”, this is a deeply personal choice.  We go no contact with our family for many different reasons, usually when the situation is so emotionally or physically abusive that we are pushed into a corner and we have a “fight or flight” reaction.  I can’t really give advice on this for your situation as this will be a decision that you will have to mull over with your husband and/or a therapist.  The bottom line being “The best interest of the children”.  It seems as if you have a really good handle on the situation with the low contact so I would keep monitoring it. The main issue I see is putting the involvement of flying monkeys at bay and the recruitment of flying monkeys. In my own family I did have to go no contact so I know how hard this is for you.  Try not to make any decisions out of spite but a good look at the reality of your relationship with your family. Good luck to you in the New Year and if you need any support just let me know!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems