Hoovering and the narcissistic relationship cycle of Idealize, devalue, and discard

If you think the Narcissist regrets breaking up and wants to make amends, think again!

Dear Narcissist Problems,

Hello!! I thought maybe you could help me understand what’s going on here.... My ex - who I believe is a narc - or sociopath - or something, broke up with me a bit over a year ago - over text. He had been getting messages on his phone from other girls, and I found out had cheated on me with one, who he is now in a relationship with. He's apparently moving to be with her (5 hours away).

I'll try keep this short - but when I was with him, he made me cook dinner every night - and would complain if it was late. I cleaned, did the washing for him etc. - and wasn't even living with him. He said that every time he came to my house it was like he had to work (?!) because I'd ask for help. He would grab my belly and ask if I’d been to the gym, said I could have a thigh gap, my hips wouldn't hurt so much if I lost weight off my hips (I'm a chef and stand all day). He dragged me down the street one day because I wasn't walking fast enough. etc. etc. etc.

His work overlooked my gym, and after we split, I started training for a half marathon. He would watch me and text me while I was at the gym (Still seeing this other woman). I ended up seeing the police about it. This weekend, I had to do a catering function for the surf club he is a member of (I am associated with the club). He wasn't attending the function, until the very last minute he bought a ticket. I can only assume it was to see me.

The whole night, he was watching me, but ignored me. He would hover by the kitchen. Saw me coming and tried to step in front of me. One time he walked past he stopped in his tracks, so I said hello. I've lost 17kg since leaving him. I dressed nicely as I'm promoting my business. He was asking my friend how I was etc. And then started texting my friend to tell her to tell me to reply to the texts he started to send me, because he wanted to chat. He's supposed to be madly in love with this new woman (The mistress - who doesn't know about me) but they spent the night apart, and he was chasing me again? He blocked the door so I couldn't leave - but wouldn't actually talk to me. Hiding behind his texts....WTF?!

He left me at a time I was under a lot of stress taking former business partners to the lawyers. I fought it by myself. He didn't support me and I was at rock bottom. I've started my own business and have built it up to the point I'm self-sufficient. Do you think he's realized he's lucked out?

Sincerely,

“I’m a Boss”

Dear “Boss”,

 What childish games narcissists play to get attention? This seems to be a pretty cut and dry example of a narcissist hoovering. Do I think he realized that he lucked out or regrets his decisions? Nope, not at all. What I do think he realizes is that you now have more to lose and getting you back will be a nice challenge for him which will give him all the more pleasure if he does get you back and then break you down again.

This is a pattern of narcissistic abuse which is to idealize, devalue, and then discard. It seems that he is simply utilizing what he probably considers cute little hoovering tactics to reel you back into the abuse. It’s like a cat playing with a mouse. Normal people understand that when a relationship ends that means it’s over for good. However, this is not how it works for a narcissist. Narcissists like to draw things out.

Hoovering and the narcissistic relationship cycle of

 Idealize, devalue, and discard

Idealize Phase

When we first meet a narcissist they really do a great job of making us feel as though they are the answer to all our prayers. They are the perfect match for us. We are like two peas in a pod with them and they make us feel like we are on cloud nine. This isn’t fate, a random coincidence that they are so much like us, or an accident. This is very calculated and deliberate on their parts.

If you notice or recall meeting this person they were initially absorbed with you. They wanted to know it all. They wanted to know every little detail about everything that has happened to you since birth. They want to know who your parents are and what your relationship is like with them. They want to know about your siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, and grandparents. They want to know who your favorite people are and who you dislike and why.

They want to know about your circle of friends and your relationships with them. They even want to meet and impress them! I mean, how great is that! Someone who is not only perfect for you but they also have an interest in your friends and family. What’s even better??? EVERYONE LOVES THEM!!! If there is someone who doesn’t love them then that person is usually the first one the narcissist targets to manipulate out of your life.

They also want to know about your job and your co-workers. They are especially interested in if you have any problems with anyone. At first they take on a stance of mutual dislike but later they will gather all the people that you don’t get along with so they can all abuse you. After they gather up your “enemies” they then target your friends and family to see who they can get on their side because in their mind it is now them against you. They also use people as their flying monkeys to help them hoover such as your friend he was sending text messages to as a go-between.

Devalue Phase

The honeymoon quickly wears off and you start to notice that the narcissist is now doing little things to take digs at you. They once loved to hear your laugh and now that same laugh is a witch’s cackle. They used to love your body but now you really could lose a few pounds. Here is the thing.

While they were idealizing you when they complimented any part of your body you most likely replied with what you hate about it such as your thighs, your underarms, or abs. I’m going to assume that you had made a comment about hating your inner thighs at some point and that is why the focal point of your “need” to lose weight was that you “Could” have a thigh gap if only you tried to take care of yourself…

The devalue phase is especially wounding because the things the narcissist chooses to devalue are the things you just got used to hearing that they loved. Before you could do no wrong and now you can do no right. Further, the narcissist is also testing your tolerance of their abuse at this stage. They want to know how far they can take things before you snap and fight back. Once you do react to the abuse then that becomes the marker they need to whittle away at. So they keep pushing that marker further and further back until it doesn’t exist anymore and you are willing to tolerate pretty much anything they can throw at you.

This doesn’t happen overnight so when you recognize it then get out of the relationship ASAP. It can sometimes take years for a narcissist to destroy that marker. That marker of tolerance is where your boundaries are. That marker is where you put your foot down, where you say “no more”, the place they can’t get into. That marker is where the narcissist ends and you begin and they know it. They want to destroy that marker of tolerance because they want to own every last piece of your mind and soul so they can destroy you from the inside out. You can’t destroy a person with good healthy boundaries that they refuse to budge on unless you slowly whittle them away.

During this phase they are recruiting others to help them achieve their ultimate goal of your destruction. The more you care for someone the more hell bent they become on getting that person on their side. They want to stick the knife in and twist. In your situation, I would be very weary of what you tell the “friend” he was sending text messages to while at your event. Our friends usually don’t make it a habit of staying in contact with our Ex’s who dump us over text message.

Discard Phase

After the narcissist has destroyed you by eroding your self-esteem, confidence, and boundaries they simply throw you away like garbage.  Nobody lucks out with a narcissist but in this case I think you lucked out to be discarded in such a cowardly way. This narcissist truly is a coward and it’s no surprise he would only communicate through text message at the event because it seems that’s the only way he knows how to communicate at all.

During the discard phase they want you to know they have found your replacement. They have new supply and want to throw in your face. They found their ultimate soulmate, they were wrong about you, and they want you to know about it. They want you to beg them to come back and they want to see you being a hot mess. They want to be able to show the new supply how crazy obsessed you are with them because they are such a great catch!

Just keep in mind that this new girlfriend is no different than you were and has no idea what kind of train wreck she is about to witness. I’m not saying you have to go around feeling sorry for people but before feeling any pangs of jealousy remember that there is nothing to be jealous about being abused.

By ignoring his attempt to hoover and reel you back in he is likely to become angry and bad mouth you to everyone. This is his attempt to make himself feel better about your pure and utter rejection of his futile attempts at dominance over you. You should be patting yourself on the back really for doing such an epic job of blocking his asinine attempts to further abuse you! Way to go!

When the Narcissist hoovers and why

A narcissist will hoover in order to maintain a connection with their victims. They will never truly leave you alone. They will try to keep an attachment to their victims under any circumstance even if that attachment is pure hate and rage.

This is a video from a very sweet set of down to earth ladies where they explain the situations that happen when we leave a narcissist, their stalking, and gaining control over your life after narcissistic abuse. Tracy has a new Youtube Channel so check out her videos and subscribe to her channel because she has new videos all the time. Tracy and Lieselle, from my understanding, actually met while they were dating the same narcissist. The relationship they developed after that is pretty amazing and they made this video below to share their story with others.

Tracy Malone & Lieselle "Narcissists Stalk And Police Do Not Care-HELP"

Think about all the time spent wishing that your narcissist would contact you after they discard you. You want little morsel of hope they could throw at you. They usually give you just enough time to where if they let you go any further then their attempts to hoover you back into a connection will be rejected.
 They will send an email, send a text message, or show up at events just to let you know they are there and they are still thinking about you. Don’t confuse their thinking about you with them caring about you. This is just a game to them. They want to see how much crap they could throw at someone and still be taken back.
 If you ask them to stop contacting you and they don't then please go no contact and document their behavior (here is an article about going no contact). If you need to get a protection order you could file for one at your local courthouse but make sure that you have enough tangible evidence and/or witnesses to support your case. 

This can be very confusing especially if you are not aware of what is going on. A person with a normal mind thinks that maybe the narcissist has seen the light. Perhaps the narcissist realizes that they made a mistake and are trying to make amends but they simply don’t know how. We start to have compassion for their situation and take pity on them.

Make no mistake about it this is as calculated as their idealization of you in the beginning of the relationship. They have not seen any light except maybe the light radiating from your smile because you are healing and they need to suck that light right out of you again to fill themselves up. Your shining light of life is like spotting a gas station on a long stretch of road when your car is about to run out of gas and nothing more. They need a fill up and you got what they need.

Narcissists are emotional vampires who like to suck their victim’s dry of any soul or life they have within them. Essentially, they drain you but keep you alive just enough to recover so they can later come back for more. They need to drain you in a way that feeds their soul and gives them life force. It sounds really ridiculous as if we were talking about some sci-fi movie but this is no joke. Narcissists are energy vampires in the purest form.

Narcissists hoover their victims to keep them in line. They like to keep their victims at an arm’s length just in case they should need supply from you again. After seeing you with your life together and thriving it is prime time to get a little of what you have to offer. It really has nothing to do with regret or lucking out for them. Another reason for the hoover is that his new relationship might not be going that well and he knows it.  

Whatever the case maybe for the hoovering there is only one reason for doing it and that is to gain control over you again. Narcissists don’t see their victims as people they see them as objects that they can manipulate, abuse, put on a shelf, and then bring out to play whenever they feel like it. Here is the thing, you are a real person and not an object and you don’t deserve any of this. If I were you I would immediately change my phone number, let my friends know I don’t want to hear about him again, and then block him from all social media and email accounts. Good Luck to you!

Regards,

Narcissists are the parasites of the human race. Period.

When Loving a Parasitic Narcissist turns into anger, depression, and suicide

Dear Narcissist Problems,

        I read a lot of your posts and info and have to say I actually thought I was a narcissist because I did so many of the things that are posted. For two years I cried and cried and had massive anxiety attacks over my situation. I hunted for Answers, begged, pleaded, apologized and I found out many horrible nasty things that had been happening. I thought once I knew the truth I would be able to just get angry and be done, but no I wanted him to never forget me or how much I loved him and how much I had given of myself to stand by him, how doing so ruined my life.

     It consumed my every thought because I couldn't and don't understand how I sacrificed so much without thinking of myself to be loyal to him and how he could just disregard me like I never existed. He went no contact with me because I discovered what he was doing and told him. I honestly thought I was going crazy, I wanted to die and had wished someone would run into my car or I could sleep and never wake up. I became this person I never thought I was and I am deeply ashamed of my actions. He has moved away now and honestly for the first time in two years I feel better.

      I'm gutted because I thought he was my once in a lifetime, but did I really want that or did I just pursue it so much because I wanted him to be sorry and accountable for how he treated me? Yes I love him, probably always will, but it's unhealthy and a long road to recovery. How can a person control so much of what u think and feel? Three years together. Did not live together. I knew he had never been faithful to others. He asked me to take a chance on him so I did, I moved for him, I worked his business for him, and I was with him through mouth cancer losing his businesses going bankrupt and his ex taking everything.

     I was warned about him but really loved him and chose him above everything. I ended up unemployed and moved again. He just got distant and the calls stopped happening. I felt something was off because of different things showing up in his place, odd texts etc. he'd deny it and deny it. He changed my number in his phone to a guy’s number. Fuck I just gave up my life as I knew it to stand by this man I couldn't understand.

     He just kept telling me it was all about him he lost everything and I lost nothing. Panic attacks would happen over anything. I just needed to know answers and why. He moved in with Asian ladies and he advertised himself for sale and his sister had told me about other women while with me. I wanted to die. I wanted revenge so bad for all of this hurt I threatened him then I'd apologize. I'd cry, beg, and plead with him. Then I would get angry again in this big circle of emotions. I'd write and say the most horrible nasty things in text ……and text…… and text I couldn't let it go.

     I've apologized over and over and still cry every day I thought I was this really horrible person. It's been 2 years and since I found out he moved to another state I feel better but don't hate him in fact I still love him and that is what I get angry about. How could someone know how much you loved them, how much you sacrificed for them, and be so cruel and uncaring? Pretend you don't exist. Let you go without. I fed him, bought him things he needed, and shared all I had with him and chose him knowing every bad thing there was to know. I loved him when he had nothing. I loved him knowing he cheated and lied and sold himself.

       I'm sorry it's such a long story. He was the first man I ever completely trusted with all of me, the first man I wanted to hug, the very first person that I said I love you to first. The first person I was willing to do anything for and did. I actually went and seen a psychologist because I was all over the place. I really didn't want revenge I just wanted him to see how much I was hurting and to try and understand why he did these things when I chose him time and time again. My income has been cut in half and now I can barely afford to live. I had to sell anything I had of value. My whole world just gone for doing what I thought was right for the man I loved. That doesn't make me a bad person does it?

Sincerely,

“Devastated”

Dear Devastated,

     I’m glad that you wrote in and shared your experience. I really hope that you continue with therapy and also find support in groups. It is very normal to wonder if you are a narcissist after being in a relationship with one. The very fact that you are dissecting your entire personality points toward the fact that you probably are not one. Narcissists don’t typically spend time examining their own motives or behaviors instead they spend their time examining the behavior of everyone else especially if there is a problem.

Narcissists are parasitic humans

     Being depressed, anxious, and suicidal are also normal reactions to being abuse. Your anger is also very normal because you have been violated at a cellular level. You are angry at him and you are angry with yourself for allowing him to take advantage of and exploit you. Narcissists are parasitic humans, emotional vampires, and down- right criminal.

     The way parasitic narcissists abuse their victims causes them to slowly kill the target via suicide. At the end they can always say that they had nothing to do with your death and even use your suicide to gain sympathy for others. This is called murder by suicide and you can bet they planned on pushing you to the brink of self-destruction just as much as they planned to exploit you.

     The key to pushing past the anger you feel and eventually past your depression and suicidal thoughts is in forgiveness. You do not have to forgive him but you do need to forgive yourself. Researchers have found that “individuals who have experienced negative life events (such as abuse or trauma) may find themselves in a dysfunctional cycle in which the abuse activates maladaptive self-focused thoughts that make it difficult for them to experience forgiveness of self.

     You need to forgive yourself

      Self-forgiveness plays a very important role in adjustment, by disrupting maladjustment and allowing abused individuals to regain self-respect they may have lost after living with an abusive partner for an extended period of time (Band-Winterstein, Eisikovits, & Koren, 2011). Forgiving yourself is an essential part of healing after narcissistic abuse. You could not have known that you were dealing with a predator, none of us did. You are not to blame for trusting this person. Nothing in life could have prepared you for what you have been through. 

      Moreover, working toward forgiveness of self has been shown to help disrupt the common association between abuse and depressive and anxious symptoms. In order to move forward with your life you will need to do a lot of work on healing and forgiving yourself. Likewise, the questioning of you being a narcissist is normal in that your thoughts have become so self-focused after being abused. This research also found that when we don’t forgive ourselves that leaves us open to remain in abusive relationships whether we keep going back to the original abuser or we find a new relationship that is also abusive. 

 The CDC's definition of a parasite is “an organism that lives on or in a host organism and gets its food from or at the expense of its host.” Does this sound familiar to you? Now there are different types of protozoa that are considered infectious to humans and are divided into four groups which are irrelevant to this discussion because what is not listed on the CDC website is that of the Parasitic Human. For Humans we would rather have them diagnosed with a personality disorder instead of naming them for what they truly are. Parasites.

I suppose it could be argued that the human can’t be considered a parasite according to science because they don’t feed off of our blood or live inside our bodies. Human parasites take this a step further and they live off your soul and they feed on your brain and thoughts and if you spend enough time with them then your entire body will start to fall ill.

     Further, they will inject you with disease and then leave. T he fact that your parasitic ex-boyfriend also had multiple sexual partners and could have given you a STD that could have destroyed your entire reproductive system, your brain, or entire immune system via contracted viruses like HIV I have no clue as to why the human parasite is still not on this CDC list is beyond me. With this is mind I would say the human is the most destructive of all parasites.

     Narcissistic parasites love to bring up the fact that they have lost so much and you have lost nothing as if you deserved to lose something. As if losing everything is a competition or if you need to give more because they are lacking. Lucky for us I dug up an article that was published in the Association for Psychological Science in 2014 by Daniel N Jones of University of Texas in El Paso. The title of the article is Predatory Personalities as Behavioral Mimics and Parasites: Mimicry-Deception Theory and while it mainly focuses on financial predators it has some key implications for understanding your situation as well.

     In his research Jones made the comparison between human and non-human parasites and their common behaviors being “a nonhuman animal mimic is defined as an organism that, through various means of deception (e.g., behavioral, visual, and chemical), appears to possess certain characteristics but actually possesses different characteristics (Holling, 1965). A predatory mimic (or Mortenson mimic) is a nonhuman animal that uses such confusion for hunting prey (Wickler, 1968).” (Jones 2014). This is very much what the parasitic narcissist does when they initiate their relationships. They camoflage themselves to cover up the preditor they are and study and mimic you. They love all the things you love. If you like dinner theater, so do they! If you LOVE mystery novels, so do they! They typically spend the beginning of their relationships asking questions and listening to your responses. This makes them appear caring and interested in you as a person but what they are really doing is taking notes on ways to gain entrance into your life and then ways to later exploit or blackmail you.  The predatory and parasitic behaviors described in this research are used to gain something from the target or prey through the use of deception alone.

      Think back to when you met your Ex-boyfriend and he was mimicking your good qualities while absorbing them in order to become the perfect partner for you, your soulmate. However, he is not like you because this was his strategy to gain your trust so that he could go in for the kill and take advantage of you. He needed to find out what buttons to push to get what he wanted much like the key codes on a vending machine. For money then press G3 but if you want to bully into action then press B2 for tears press A1 and for a feeling of saftey then press C6. Make no mistake about it, they study their victims from the very beginning and if they feel you are slipping away then they will press the saftey button to get you to stay. If they press G3 for instant money and you refuse then they press B2.  Jones dissects this deceptive behavior as “mimicry complexity, resource extraction rate, host integration, and risk of detection.”(2014).

      In essence your ex had a long term goal in sight and that was to drain you of all of your resources with little detection from you of being or feeling used. When these people come into our lives they have very limited resources such as money and if they do have resources it is usually from conning their last victim. They will most likely have numerous potential victims hence the many girlfriends and sexual partners because to them its like fishing.

     The wider the net is cast out the more they can pull in and use or sell.  The key to your Ex’s success was with this “resource extraction rate”, he spent the time to gain your trust and he didn’t extract all of your resources at once as to alert you that you were being manipulated and used.

     Rest assured that some of the others that were caught in his net were used for short term needs and they were quickly used and then thrown back to sea. The ones that are short term goals are the ones they con so bad that they do so quickly and very obviously and they need to be discarded so they don't have the potential to cause the narcissist any humiliation or exposure later. These victims are less likely to live near by. The narcissist probably met them online in dating sites or singles apps.

      Being a long term victim he got his foot in the door and then slowly bled you dry and destroyed your life. Of course you are angry! Who wouldn’t be! You were deceived, conned, and duped! You thought you were falling in love and this guy was only using love as a ruse to take you for all that you had and you continued to give. You are angry with him and you are probably even angrier with yourself! The point of this whole explanation is that your ex-boyfriend should no longer be viewed by you as a human because he is nothing more than a parasite.

     On top of being parasitic this person is probably going to land in prison someday due to being a con artist. I would not blame yourself but instead I would wait for other victims to eventually contact you as a witness in some court case. As for the criminal behaviors of those diagnosed with cluster B personality disorders more research is being developed. The behavior of your ex is clearly bordering criminal if not criminal already and some research already explains that there are modes of criminal behavior expressed by those with cluster B disorders and they range from the ruthless to the protective. You need to understand that you have been victimized so understanding how criminals manipulate victims is almost imperative to forgiving yourself.

     One mode described as criminal cluster b behavior is “conning and manipulative” and is what is seen when the narcissist, psychopath, or sociopath is forming a relationship with another with the purpose of gaining something from them via conning, lying, and manipulation. Moreover, these modes cycle throughout the relationship if that relationship is long term so you could experience these modes over and over again. 

     Then there is a mode described as “paranoia” mode in which the cluster BPD attempts to control sources of danger or humiliation.  Further, "Predator mode" refers to the “cold, ruthless, and premeditated aggression in which the individual focuses on callously eliminating a real or imagined threat, rival or obstacle.  (Keulen-de Vos, Bernstein, Vanstipelen, Vogel, Lucker, Slaats, & Arntz 2016).

      The more impulsive he got with his asking for money or other resources also seems to have escalated in aggression as he bullied you (Pressed those buttons on the machine) into giving him things which further manipulated you through guilt of noncompliance. This is what diagnosed cluster B criminals have been shown to do to a T. “Furthermore, it appeared that as events leading up to crimes progressed, patients’ emotional states were characterized by escalating levels of anger and impulsivity, culminating in states of ‘hot’ aggression (i.e., bully and attack mode) and ‘cold’ predatory aggression (i.e., predator mode) during the crimes themselves..”(2016).   What has happened here with you seems to be that this human parasite planned to take you for all that you would give for as long as you would give it and then when he was expose you were immediately discarded.   

     Each time he asked for something his demand for you to pity him and put your own needs second seemed to work well for him so in your recovery it would be a good idea to work on setting firm boundaries with people. What he was not planning on was his sister informing you of the other girlfriends. He went from being the love of your life, to manipulative and bullying you into giving up your resources, and paranoid in that he kept an entirely separate life, to the final discard when the sister exposed the whole scheme he had going on with multiple women. This is what human parasites do and we call them Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sociopaths.  

I’m going to share a video with you that I watched the other day. It is kind of long but it is probably something you should take the time to listen to because the situation is almost identical to what this man went through. I think it will help you find some type of closer. Also, he drops the F bomb a lot but regardless anyone who is dating should listen to this person's nightmare as he discusses meeting his psychopath and all the clues along the way up to him finding out that his partner was a sex worker.  

      I’d like to also mention that as he had a line of sexual partners waiting around the corner when he changed your name in his phone to that of a man’s and then suddenly grew distant he knew that you were out of resources. There was nothing left for him to take. At that point you were useless to him and he treated you accordingly as he moved on to his next victim.

     Typically, someone wouldn’t hide a name or phone number unless they were spending an intimate and large amount of time with another person that also has access to the same phone. So think back to when you met him. What guy kept calling him at the beginning of your relationship that you never met and he stopped talking to? This is a pattern of conduct for him and has very little to do with who you are except for one thing; cluster BPD’s normally target people who have something to offer. He probably seen you with your life together, money in the bank, and a good job and planned out his next 5 years at least.

It takes years to heal from narcissistic abuse. You will have the lowest lows known to mankind. You will question yourself and if you are really the disordered one. You will spend day and night analyzing what you have been through to the point of mental and physical exhaustion. My best advice for you is to realize that you are not alone. Understand that there is probably very little you could have done to prevent this from happening but you do have the power to study and research red flags so that you don’t keep finding yourself in these relationships with different people. Stay in counseling and ask your therapist if they are familiar with trauma therapy for abuse victims. Get connected with other survivors so that you can openly speak about what you have been through without feeling disbelieved or judged. Good luck to you on your healing journey!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

References

Chang, E. C., Kahle, E. R., Yu, E. A., & Hirsch, J. K. (2014). Understanding the Relationship between Domestic Abuse and Suicide Behavior in Adults Receiving Primary Care: Does Forgiveness Matter? Social Work, 59(4), 315-320.

Jones, D. N. (2014). Predatory Personalities as Behavioral Mimics and Parasites: Mimicry–Deception Theory. Perspectives on Psychological Science, 9(4), 445-451. Doi: 10.1177/1745691614535936

Keulen-de Vos, M. E., Bernstein, D. P., Vanstipelen, S., Vogel, V., Lucker, T. C., Slaats, M., & ... Arntz, A. (2016). Schema modes in criminal and violent behaviour of forensic cluster B PD patients: A retrospective and prospective study. Legal & Criminological Psychology, 21(1), 56-76. doi:10.1111

The best way to get revenge on a Narcissist

The Best Ways of Getting Revenge on a Narcissist

Dear Narcissist Problems,

I have been with a narcissist for 3 years and he abruptly ended it. I don't know where to start but he is the one who fell in love with me and proposed to me. He was what I thought was an understanding person and respected me. But as time was passing by his colors were shown, angry!!!! Selfish!!! But yet I continued to love him. Then he started accusing me for so many things which I thought “Why am I getting accused??” He would call me a liar when I would start to explain why I didn’t do what he was accusing me of doing.

My Narcissistic Ex Keeps calling me Crazy

By the 2nd year he started calling me insane. He used to tell me that repeated mistakes are insanity but my repeated mistake was just “nagging” him for his love. I think that is a common characteristic of women and I used to tell him that I am not insane. I would again explain and defend myself. As time was going along he started calling me an idiot, that I have “no brains” that I “have an understanding problem”, “insane” and I was really pissed.

He has Characteristics of a narcissist

He started using his recovery terms on me when he has to apply them to his life and not mine. Then he started using these words every day and he stopped communicating with me. At first I was in bad shape thinking it was all my fault. But I came to this page and I was so relieved that it's not my fault and these are the characteristics of a narcissist.

He really made me feel like I am the worst person on earth and he the best. Nothing was his problem and he left me because of my “INSANE” personality. But now I know I am not insane and it's him!!!! All I want to say is I am still trying to recover from his verbal abuse as he was manipulating me with his satisfactory terms of life. God knows who the hell can deal with a narcissistic personality disorder!! I’m still trying to recover but the anger I have for him is too much. I still cry while thinking of how he made fun of my love for him. Calling me stupid and insane as if I were desperate. But the anger is what comes around, comes around, and comes around… he will definitely pay for what he has done to me. I wanted to ask if narcissists will ever think they have done anything wrong or  do narcissists ever feel guilty? Hurting someone so much and they can live a happy life?

Sincerely,

I want Revenge

Dear “Revenge”,

            I’m really glad that you found your way here too because the first thing I would like to say is to let go of wanting any pay back or revenge. The best way to get revenge on this jerk is to become hell bent on understanding narcissism and narcissistic abuse so that you don't end up in another relationship like this one and healing yourself. The number one best way to get revenge on a narcissist is by living a happy life filled with people who love you! Holding onto the anger of what you have been through with a narcissist will end up eating you alive. Moreover, it will keep you trapped in a vicious cycle of enmeshment with this person. He isn’t worth it. Think of the years you spent already trying to make things work with him. You don’t want to spend any more years trying to make him realize how much he has hurt you because he never will. If he does realize then he just does not care.

Do Narcissists Ever feel like they have done anything wrong?

You are asking some very great questions. Does he feel he has done anything wrong? This could go two ways with a narcissist really because they have very distorted thinking. In the first instance he may have justified his actions and bad behavior to himself making what he has done “ok” in his mind. The second instance is that yes he knows exactly what he is doing and he did it on purpose. Either way, he hurt you and would have only continued to hurt you and when he crawls back to you DO NOT TAKE HIM BACK!!!! He will never change so keep in mind when you are feeling nostalgic that narcissists only change their outfits and their victims.

Why do narcissists do what they do?

Why narcissists do what they do will remain a mystery for anyone who has empathy. We can examine their behavior, we can be involved with disordered individuals, and we can even have family that do cruel things. The biggest question that many survivors of narcissistic abusers have is if they feel bad or guilty about what they have done to us. From personal experience, I don’t think they will ever feel bad as far as we go. They might display remorse occasionally but when they do it is typically to further manipulate us. Once they have their mind set on abusing or exploiting someone it seems the only thing they learn to do is change their tactics when they get caught.

Narcissists are unlikely to feel remorse or guilt because they have no empathy

As for remorse or guilt it is highly unlikely. I shared a video the other day from Simon Baron-Cohen of whom I just became familiar with his work. Cohen has a very interesting perspective on the human personality as he utilizes research from multiple disciplines while searching for the answers for why people behave cruelly or why people do evil things. He investigates research from developmental psychology, neuroscience, genetics, and psychiatry to explain why some people lack empathy. He goes further to distinguish known disorders where empathy or reaction are limited specifically those diagnosed with autism and psychopaths.

Simon Baron-Cohen FBA is Professor of developmental psychopathology at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom. He is the Director of the University's Autism Research Centre, and a Fellow of Trinity College. Seems like a pretty nifty title right? Well FBA is short for Functional Behavior Assessment and is a process that identifies specific target behavior, the purpose of the behavior, and what factors maintain the behavior. What I find really interesting about his work is the connections he makes with research regarding empathy.

Are Narcissists Evil?

He recently wrote a book that covers how empathy works and why some people turn into psychopaths and also the different types of empathy or lack of.  I would suggest checking out his book The Science of Evil : On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty because I think it would help you understand why your narcissist has done what he has done and his ultimate feelings about it which could help you find some closure.

Unsatisfied with the explanation of atrocities being “because those who commit them are evil” Cohen has been on a mission since childhood to find an exact answer as to how people can be so cruel and why. Which is great for anyone who has suffered at the hands of a narcissist, sociopath, or psychopath. We need answers on the cellular level of our beings as to why and how our abuser could have done the things they did to us when all we wanted was to love and to be loved by them. In this book he says that the term evil is an easy way out of explaining anything on the subject so he refers to this behavior as “empathy erosion”.

Further, “empathy erosion can arise because of corrosive emotions, such as bitter resentment, or desire for revenge, or blind hatred, or a desire to protect, or the result of permanent psychological characteristics.” He completely dissects the debate of nature VS. Nurture and comes to the conclusion that psychopaths are cruel because of both nature and nurture. When people suffer from empathy erosion this is when people get turned into objects. They are no longer considered to be “people” with feelings or emotions. Those who suffer from a lack of empathy have no more concern for their victims than they would a pair of shoes.

If you hang out around survivors of cluster B disordered individuals long enough you will come to find that these are some pretty amazing people. Survivors are beautiful on the inside but they didn’t become that way due to the abuse of a narcissist or a psychopath. They were always that way. So when you say why did he do this to me, why did he make me feel stupid, why did he need to show me that he was better than me it is for one reason alone: He is intimidated by how intelligent and amazing you are and he needed to destroy something beautiful?

Narcissist steal objects and qualities from their victims

Another thing they do is try to “steal” the qualities of their victims so they mentally absorb all they find valuable in you and then they try to make it seem as if those qualities never existed in you in the first place. They are after something that you have whether it is physical like money or property or spiritually/ mentally like the essence of who you are. When they become hell bent on stealing from someone either physically, mentally, or spiritually they only focus on what they are wanting. They no longer see you as a person.

 In his book Cohen explains the why and how people can do cruel things with one example:

Erosion of empathy is a state of mind that can be found in any culture. In 2006 I was in Kenya with my family on holiday. We landed in Nairobi, a massive international city swirling with people. Sadly, Nairobi is home to one of the largest slums in Africa. People sleeping on the streets, mothers dying of AIDS, malnourished children begging or doing anything they can to survive. I met Esther, a young Kenyan woman, one of the fortunate ones who had a job. She warned me to be careful of the rising crime in Nairobi.

“I was in the supermarket,” she said. “Suddenly, a woman near me who was paying for her groceries let out a scream. A man behind her had cut off her finger. In the commotion, the man slid the wedding ring off the severed finger and ran off into the crowds.”

This is a shocking example of what one person can do to another. Formulating the plan to go out into the crowded supermarket to steal is easy enough to comprehend, especially if a person is starving. Formulating the plan to take a knife along is a bit harder to identify with, since it indicates clear premeditation to cut something.

But for me the key is to imagine the mind of the person in the seconds just before the act of cutting. At that very moment presumably all that is visible to the thief is the target (the ring), a small object that could feed him for weeks. All that is lying between him and his next meal is the woman’s finger that has to be severed. The fact that the finger is attached to a hand is mere inconvenience, and cold logic points to the solution: Detach it. The fact that the hand is attached to a person, with her own life and her own feelings, is at that moment irrelevant. Out of mind. It is an example of turning another person into, no more than, an object. My argument is that when you treat someone as an object, your empathy has been turned off.”

Narcissists see their victims as objects and not people

So when you ask will a narcissist ever feel guilty for hurting you…. I think the only answer is No he knew what he was doing but he just did not care because he has zero empathy for your pain. You had something that he desperately wanted. There really is no difference between this supermarket thief and your ex-boyfriend in regards to how they feel about their victims.

It is going to take a really long time to recover from this relationship. Being angry is a natural response to injustice and a violation of who we are as human beings. Wanting to be loved and wanted is a normal human behavior. Gaining someone’s love just too consistently reject, criticize and tear them down is not a normal human behavior and you should avoid anyone who does this to you because they will slowly kill you over time.

You are going to need some support while you heal from this. You should also get into therapy as soon as possible with a professional who specifically treats patients who have suffered from trauma. As for a support system I invite you to make an anonymous profile and join our support group. Also read and research all that you can about this personality disorder because it will help you heal to understand what you have been through. These people put us through so much that it is hard to identify or explain it to ourselves much less to anyone else. Good luck to you on your healing journey, you got this!

Regards,

Get a copy of The Science of Evil

Baron-Cohen, S. (2011). The Science of Evil : on empathy and the origins of cruelty. New York: Basic Books, c2011.

Baron-Cohen, S. (2011). The science of evil. [Electronic resource]: on empathy and the origins of cruelty. New York: Basic Books, c2011.

Dear Narcissist Problems, "Narcissistic Social Worker"

Dear Narcissist Problems,

I love social media, thank you for your site. When I explain to others what I experience with a narcissistic social worker a masters narcissistic social worker (that should not have a license) people look at me like I am crazy. I would like more information for education helps me to understand the craziness.

Need resources on how to deal with a Narcissistic Social Worker!

Sincerely,

"legally harassed"

Narcissist Problems Survival Guide Ebook

Dear "harassed"

     I can only imagine what you are going through if you are dealing with a narcissistic social worker! As far as educational materials dealing specifically with a narcissistic social worker I'm coming up short handed. However! There is a lot of information on how to deal with an investigation, how to deal with false allegations, and how to deal with legal kidnapping.

     Unfortunately for us what we consider narcissistic abuse is actually common practice within the Department of human services. I'm sure that some good people with noble intentions originally set out to be social workers to save children but all of those good intentions fly out of the window when combined with state policies. 

   There is a conflict of interest happening within our civil court system and specifically within DCFS where false allegations are encouraged by narcissistic social workers and used against parents with little to no evidence as a means to legally kidnap children. I think we are all in agreement that throwing a child into the foster care system rather than working with the parents who may have issues is not only not in the best interest of the child but it's also not in the best interest of our species.

The late Senator Nancy Schaefer was an advocate for parents and families dealing with social services. She did a great job explaining what happens to families dealing with DCFS. 

There is a huge problem in our country in regards to the corruption and problems withing the DCFS system so outing one narcissistic social worker would be almost impossible because their tactics are widely accepted and used by the entire system to destroy children and families. 

I'm glad this page has helped but I highly suggest doing a search on Facebook for groups that deal directly with CPS and DCFS corruption.

Here are five things you can do if you are facing false allegations to DCFS:

• Don't sign anything!
• Hire a Lawyer!
• Don't Give them access to any of your records!
• Recind signatures!
• Record and document all interactions!

     In the meantime, make sure that you record all interactions with this social worker. Inform them that you will be recording the conversation or face to face meeting if required to do so by law. 

Another option is to refuse any meetings without your lawyer. If they want to speak with you then ALWAYS speak with your lawyer. Stop them and say, I need to talk to my lawyer first. Then call your lawyer.

     I know attorneys are very expensive but this is one situation where you should sell your house, car, pawn your belongings, and do whatever you need to come up with the money to pay a lawyer because not having a lawyer could cost you your family. Don't sign anything without showing it to your lawyer first.

     If you have already signed something then send them a certified letter in the mail requiring a signature that states you are recinding, an email that you are recinding, AND a phone call. Then save the records of all three so they can' t later say they collected evidence before you recinded your signature.  When you recind make the letter quick and to the point "I did not understand what I was signing, I signed under duress, and I was told that if I didn't sign the document X Y and Z would happen to me or my children".

     Make it clear that you will no longer be signing anything without a lawyer first looking over the document. I'm not sure exactly what is going on in your case or with this social worker but I can only imagine that you are being threatened with your custody of your children. Make sure that you stand your ground, never admit to anything especially when you are innocent! A great way parents get duped by DCFS is signing an agreement to services. In the eyes of the government by you signing that agreement you are agreeing to being guilty of whatever they are accusing you of. DON'T SIGN ANYTHING, EVER!

     These people might act as though they are above the law but they are not. If you don't know your rights as a citizen of this country then you might as well not have any. They need probably cause, they need evidence so don't give it to them!

     Make them take you to court but you better be sure that you are not giving up evidence that might be used against you because it will be even if its something innocent it will be twisted into you being a monster. If you give them an inch they will take a mile. Stand your ground and know your rights. Specifically, know the 4th and 14th amendments and practice them!

Regards,

Narcissist Problems

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